Yesterday's post may have been a mistake. I proposed a "You Might Be American If" site where people could submit their own humorous descriptions of what it means to be American. What was I thinking? The first thing to come to me was cliched vitriol. It wasn't funny, it wasn't clever. I thought about doing something I've never done before and remove the post from the blog. I was taking no pleasure from it. But I've left it up, let it stand on its own, a testament to my own naive optimism. Also, to my own jingoism. But witty jingoism, I hope. I don't care which side of the ideological spectrum an idea falls on if it has wit. It is the dull, witless, ideological, cliched rants that make me cringe.
And my response to yesterday's comment section is two words: Belgian Congo. There is plenty of wit in that.
Now. . . about the Sundance narrative. I really can't write it without sounding gross. It would sound like bragging. It would sound like I was living on the set of "Mad Men." I had a Donald Draper moment. I had a wonderful time because the veil of invisibility was lifted, because I was WAY cooler in the west than I am in my own home town, or so it seemed. Everything went right from where I left off the narrative, and who wants to read that? I might be able to tell you what happened in brief, but I sure as hell can't narrate it. I would set myself up for untold but not unsuspected criticism. The master narrative of our culture has changed without acknowledgement. At least in that part of the culture I inhabit. There are ideological epithets awaiting me if I tell the tale. Not one. Many. Nobody likes to hear about someone getting what they want, especially if he fits my profile. I am on the wrong end of every hierarchy for this to go right.
But for a moment, brief and everlasting, I was Hollywood.
Yes, Belgian Congo...
ReplyDeleteThat was/is really unspeakably terrible.
Almost as bad as what 'you' did with the Indians.
At least we didn't murder them all...
Maybe there were just to many of them, or we needed them to work for us.
Work for us to steal their country empty and become rich of that.
Yes, I am such a friendly girl, providing you with the information you need to try to pay me back.
A good thing there is a big difference between Americans and Belgians:
We can laugh with everything, also with ourselves.
My g... does it still hurt?
That would be nice.
:-P
hey man I'm from new jersey. Nothing phases us. Hey did you like sleep with January jones or something?
ReplyDeleteDon't worry you are probably not the only person in the world who has had a remarkable experience on vacation. But the whole thing seems precious and charmed for you too much so for you to make it I to a woody Allen scene. Talking about it like some "it on,y happens to me" experience may however be more annoying than actually reading about it.
I went to see the descendants on super bowl nite. It was really fucking good. Well I thought so. Off to see the artist today. I actually have a day almost off for myself.
Spring feels like it s the air. Doesn't it?
Argh. I'm using this new fang.ed iPad thing. It is your fault I bought one. Still can't type on it.
ReplyDeleteHey, I'm an American and I like Belgium and its inhabitants! Countries are not too different from people; we've all made our share of mistakes.
ReplyDeleteIt's art that bridges the divides. Art like CS makes.
(And I only watched the last 3 minutes of the Super Bowl.)
The only time a nation is like an individual is in a dictatorship, with the society somewhat reflecting the inner workings of its leader's mind.
ReplyDeleteNations do not act as individuals, they act as nations, generally abhorrent to the sensibilities of individuals. A nation with power will always be perceived to be misusing that power by those that are affected by it, even if they are being protected by that power, sometimes especially so in that regard. The citizens of a disaffected nation get to enjoy the many pleasures of self-righteousness, oddly the very quality most evident in their accusations of the "nation in error"...
It can be easy to believe in the goodness of people, if that is what you wish to believe about yourself and those around you. It is difficult to do the same with nations, particularly other ones. One can believe their own nation to be superior with its use of power but history reflects that power is more often misused than otherwise. Power pursues its own interest, not the empowerment of others.
There is much literature and journalism in this country questioning and denouncing our use of power, both foreign and domestic. That simple fact rarely makes its way into the minds of those who wish to criticize us simply. America has more newspapers and magazines in print than any other nation on earth, reflecting an astonishing array of diversity in intellect and opinion. The assertion that we are all of "one type" is easily dismissed by the resistant facts.
The nature of bigotry is to cling to ignorance and reductionist "observations," denying the complexity of its subject through narrow ideology and stereotyping.
I apologize for this comment not being any funnier... I am just an American, you know.
What I meant to say is that nations don't make mistakes, individuals do. Nations always seek to exert their power for their own gain, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. There is no such thing as a purely philanthropic nation.
ReplyDeleteI really love your text, Sean, no kidding.
ReplyDeleteThink I can agree with it all, as far as I can grasp it with my amoeba- mind of course.
"The Americans' have it all....
Only thing missing is some self mockery.
But I guess that's what you get when being so busy to protect half the world.
For your information:
I think we are all big assholes, when it comes down to it.
Even when I am a naive idiot that believes in the goodness of each individual, untill proven wrong.
And I am disgusted with big super commercial events anywhere.
How might we better self-mock? I'm not sure which sources you're dissatisfied with, as there are so many. A reasonably good place to start is Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. As far as self-mockery goes I don't think it gets much better than them. In fact, it is almost all that they do, and they are two of the most popular television personalities in America. I'm not sure if Rush Limbaugh is self-mocking but it seems like he must be, along with several others from his side of the great American divide, Pat Robertson also.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Belgium I don't recall a time when they have jumped up on the global stage to make fun of themselves. Perhaps they were and I just didn't get it, being too American for it, etc.
It's as if you're disappointed that America hasn't begged for your forgiveness.
China and India are hilarious, by the way....
My sources are Selavy, and you, in this case, Sean.
ReplyDelete:-P
Oh, if you want to see us self mocking, you should visit the carnival in Aalst.
ReplyDeleteStay until the morning hours if you want to look deep into our soul.
Selavy and I don't self-mock our Americanness enough? Well, I'll add that to my list of goals. I've had some people complain that I do too much of it.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, have I apologized for Vietnam yet?
Belgians have souls? French or Flemish...? I think I saw a poor Belgian soul being tortured once in a castle in Ghent...
That was a joke, by the way. I'm certain that I've apologized for Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing that if even Americans have soul, surely we have them too.
ReplyDeleteMy god, so pathetic.
This is the second time I see you changing in an 'intelectual' version of a gettho bitch, Sean.
As 'we' know them from all your cliché films and television series.
Excuse me for thinking you could take a stupid joke!
Both of you heroes and geniuses...
Very defensive yo are, maybe your little American souls are bothered a bit anyway, like... by some guilt or something?
I don't know, I am just this idiot of course.
Right, Selavy?
A narrow minded one?
One with prejudices?
Haha... You are easier to play with than little girls...
Is that what you mean by self-mocking? Seems easy enough. I'll give it a try sometime.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that you could, Sean.
ReplyDeleteYou think too highly of yourself.
And you need all your time teaching stupid people lessons.
Can't be much more American than that of course.
You must get so tired of that.
But, I am very grateful!
Thanks, Sean, thanks.
You made me a better person.
"Here some 'input' from another culture: Your description alone is already enough to make me puke.
ReplyDeleteYes, Americans look only at the big, bigger, biggest things. We are honoured and relieved that 'you' don't know us.
That you can buy, the whole world? Hopefully it will be done soon, so that you can start feeding the people starving in the streets of your own cities.
Not kidding. I wonder how the people living on the streets think about your "super whatever shit". They don't have internet acces to write about it of course..
Hahaha... I just read that you are all watching your 'super commercial shit bowl' live show with a delay to avoid.... nipples being showed! Hahaha... Americans...
A good thing there is a big difference between Americans and Belgians: We can laugh with everything, also with ourselves."
You are fascinating, Nadja, truly, an endless wonder.
Self-mocking behavior sounds almost like drunkenness. I think I get it now.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Europe..!
What???
ReplyDeleteYou don't think that's funny???
Strange Americans...
Really very weird.
But, I guess it makes a bit more sense when you read it as the 'dialogue' it was.
I mean, for everyone but an American anyway.
Drunkenness?
No Sean, I am dry for 7 years now.
It's the loss of braincells from drinking in the years before that.
And from seeing to much American shit on our television.
I stopped looking now.
It's more fun to bother Americans online.
Bigots are rarely self-acknowledging.
ReplyDeleteThis self-mocking posture you assume, which you falsely believe absolves you of your awfulness and ignorant geographic partisanship, only serves to bolster the very argument against you that you so freely use and level against others.
You've got it all figured out Nadja, and sober at that! The wonders never cease.
Have you found nothing more worthy of your hatred than America? You're a bright girl, certainly one day you will. Look around.
"It is the dull, witless, ideological, cliched rants that make me cringe. " -Selavy
ReplyDeleteI am with dumb old Selavy on this one.
There is something that perhaps you did not notice about the Super Bowl.
It is super.
Almost every person I know sees how truly self-mocking the Super Bowl is. But it has somehow escaped your advanced sensibilities. Did you not watch any of the the commercials? They are vignettes of national self-awareness.
Oh, but perhaps not for a Belgian... My apologies. For that, and Vietnam.
That's exactly why he got some more.
ReplyDeleteFire up the 'spirit' of the old man a bit.
Since I love him so much.
Almost every other person?
Oh yes, I forgot, the whole world looked in admiration at your super bowl, right?
Haha...
I rather pass on your national awareness, thanks!
National awareness sounds ugly to me, especially combined with Americans.
See you guys!
ReplyDeleteMy damaged brain can't take this anymore tonight.
All the alcohol... and all the rest.
I am already happy I still function at a minimum level.
Just enough to keep annoying some Americans, so I am happy.
Must get to sleep urgently.
Have sweet American Dreams!
I love you!
You are really cool guys, for Americans anyway!
Big XXX!
By the way, hate, Sean?
I don't even know how that feels.
I have wasted my time at far worse things than this, so here goes... one last time, and then I quit, truly, Belgium wins the Super Bowl... 2012 !!!!
ReplyDeleteYou represent a confused combination of assertions. You lack the ability to form a consistent argument, much less a set of coherent thoughts, other than abject distaste and avowed disapproval for large groups of others, namely Americans. I challenge you to read more on what is known as "western culture." You might find some surprising similarities between our nations, especially as it pertains to your current political freedoms.
But who am I to question you. You were educated by the finest minds that collated on your country, I'm sure. I hope it doesn't hurt you too much to know that my intelligence does not seek your approval.
I'd like to give this conversation some closure by pretending that it never happened.
-q
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNadja, I needn't be a flag waving patriot to disagree with, and resist, your particular brand of ignorance. You continue to fail to see the distinction between America and Americans. All I've tried to do is point out that you are treating an entire group of people, over 300 million of them, as if they were all of one type and deserving of your hatred as such. You embody the very definition of the term "bigot.". You are dull, ignorant and filled with hatred. I have only taken the time to resist you because I think that it is important to do so, that your voice and ideas should not go unchallenged. But I've wasted all the time that I'm willing to on you. I had the day off yesterday, not today. As Selavy has pointed out, trying to change other people's opinions by arguing is a waste of time. I've wasted all the time that I can on you.
ReplyDeleteYou've made your mind clear enough for all to see.
ReplyDelete"America has more newspapers and magazines in print than any other nation on earth, reflecting an astonishing array of diversity in intellect and opinion."
ReplyDeleteI disagree, especially with the "diversity" part.
http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main
Hey, Nadja... you go girl! I'm rooting for you on this one. :)
India actually has more newspapers, my mistake. America has the most per capita, by far. It's true that many of them are owned by large media giants but the extraordinary spectrum of thought is still represented, especially when one considers those combined with local independent and online publications, though often the magnitude is overwhelming. It does still require effort on the readers part. Anybody that does not find diversity of opinion in American journalistic writing is not looking. It is there to be discovered.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to see you both on the same side. I quite prefer you there. Though I certainly hope that Nadja's hatred of Americans doesn't interfere with the friendship.
I only look at personality when it comes to friendship, Sean.
ReplyDeleteAnd I love to see a woman that dares to be different.
Even when it means to almost get the head bitten off by the likes of you.
Your position of bland America-hating must be perceived as very bold in your country, Nadja, the mark of a truly independent mind. How do you find friends to discuss it all with? You must be all alone at times.
ReplyDeleteThat an adherent to the "crystal-lights" aligns herself with an avowed bigot is no surprise either. It must require extreme prejudice in thought to believe something like that.
I can't even imagine...
To be denigrating is the thing you do best, Sean.
ReplyDeleteAnd you do it with even larger groups, like China and India in the same time.
And you take an individual on a level as low as needed, with your high morals.
You are exactly the kind of arrogant bastard that give Americans a real bad name.
I have enough friends, thanks, people love to talk with me.
I am known to be a warm, friendly and understanding person with a very open mind.
And I hate nobody. Not even you.
Even when you are a twisted morality knight.
Nadja, let's re-examine our conversation. You attacked America and Americans, that's what started this whole thread. You accused us of not being self-mocking enough, among many other things. My statement that "China and India are hilarious" was in response to YOUR bigoted ignorance. It was a point about YOU, not THEM. That you failed to see that then, and continue to do so now, is no great surprise. The vision of a bigot sees only what it wants to see. You are trying to accuse me of something that is so obviously absurd and false that it only re-confirms that I am wasting my time. You are somehow trying to make it appear now as if I was the one attacking nations. Do you think the people that come here are incapable of reading? You have even outdone your own dogma and misguided jingoist rants with that one...
ReplyDeleteI suppose it doesn't matter. You have left all of the evidence that you need, for all to see, and now you have an ally. You two will do well supporting one another. I can sense it.
All I have tried to do is respond your attacks and your ideas, to defy and denounce them, because they are common and incomplete. You were the first to make any of this conversation personal, with stereotypical assaults and reductionist accusations. The you upped it by attacking me personally because you did not like what I was saying. You continue to do so, just read your previous post.
I have been witness to your "open-mindedness" and "warmth," as has everybody that has read this thread.
I think I've already had my fill of it for the day.
"You attacked America"
ReplyDeleteHaha...
We all know what exuses you think that gives you...
Should I warn our government ...
Sorry people, I made a stupid joke about puking with their super shit bowl.
They convicted me without a trial, so I added a bit to that...So...
They can bomb Brussels any minute now...
I'm sorry. I misused the word, "attack."
ReplyDeleteI meant "rape," not attack.
You were just raping America, verbally. I just felt so violated by it, so naked, and dirty. Super Bowl Sunday is a day of common domestic violence in this country. I suppose my patriotism really got the best of me, and I forgot. I felt vulnerable and beaten, by shame and pain. So I stood up and tried to flog you with the flag. I was just frightened, naked, incapable of the self-mocking dance that might have pleased you, might have prevented all of this.
America's always loved me, I thought. I should have known better. It's always somebody you know, they say. America put something in my drink.
I'm so sorry that I said that stuff about you. It was a mistake, but it doesn't reflect what actually happened. That's exactly what I told the police, I swear. You only forced US at first. You never really attacked me, you were just SO MAD about America, you were doing some necessary ideological insertions, because you prefer other politics, you already explained that. I'm stupid, I know. You were justified, I was wrong. It was the patriotic outfit I was wearing. I asked for it. You couldn't help yourself. It was your duty to do it, knowing what I know now. How else was I to learn? I am the problem with America. I hate everything about this dirty country now too. I really thought the Super Bowl loved me.... Help, Oprah....
Ha Sean, did you finally get laid again?
ReplyDeleteMuch better.
But an American being humble, that's not very realistic.
And I'm sure you still don't feel dirtty enough.
I figured since you get to spout nonsense at will about your mother sucking donkey dicks, or anything else that happens to pop into your head, why shouldn't I? You're clearly incapable of remembering what you've said from one post to the next. So much so that you accused me of denigrating China and India, with apparent disdain for anybody that would attack another culture, meanwhile forgetting how this thread even began, with you attacking another culture with dull stereotypes and hateful language. I'm sure China and India are relieved to have you defending them against that sort of thing. I know I would be...
ReplyDeleteThen I started to notice another trend emerge in your "thoughts." You started to portray yourself as the "victim" of the conversation. It needn't matter that it was your insults and accusations that began the entire thread. All that matters at a certain point is to cry, "foul"... The only sensible response for me was to respond in kind by adopting your "logic." So, what better way than to claim rape? But you seem to be so familiar with the mentality of false victimhood that you hardly even recognized it, you mistook victimhood for humility. No big surprise there.
Now, try a little taste of that humility that you speak of and thank America for the internet. It's really let you trot your advanced ideas out across the globe.
You didn't play the victim role very convincing, that's why.
ReplyDeleteYou need more practise.
I remember Sean, I remember.
You are not only denegrating about China and India.
But whatever.
When an American does denigrating about something/ someone, it's probably a big compliment.
Tell me again how I denigrated China and India? I've forgotten. I've been so honored with your nationalist disparagement that I must have forgotten my manners.
ReplyDeleteYou've played the victim role poorly as well. Maybe it was all that hateful bile that you started off with, and the personal attacks. Is that how victims act now ? My, how times have changed....
We're both wasting our time, Nadja. I get it, you hate America and Americans and you feel justified in any and all of your behavior and speech towards us. But you also strongly oppose that sort of behavior in others, even when it is done jokingly to try to make a point to you. You are a champion of both China and India and you will not sit idly by while anybody attacks another culture. Your point is, and always has been, that Americans are ignorant and arrogant, how dare they speak of anything?
I'm not sure how I missed that message earlier. It all seems so clear now...
Thanks, pal...
"When I think of Belgium I don't recall a time when they have jumped up on the global stage to make fun of themselves. Perhaps they were and I just didn't get it, being too American for it, etc.
ReplyDeleteIt's as if you're disappointed that America hasn't begged for your forgiveness.
China and India are hilarious, by the way.... "
Yes, Sean, amazing that you spend so much time on an idiot.
I was wondering about that actually.
Do you ever pick on someone your own size?
Or only on dumb and ignorant women?
Who obviously can't help being so dumb.
Maybe you could keep writing more lessons for us.
Your 'too much time problem' solved, and who knows, maybe we would learn something along the way, against all expectations.
You still don't get it. One of your criticisms of America was that it didn't have a sense of humor about itself. When I responded to the absurdity of that you embraced those comments as if they were genuine criticisms of other countries, then cloaking yourself in victimhood all the while that you actually DO attack another culture.
ReplyDeleteDo I ever pick on someone my own size? Your victimhood in this matter is really growing out of proportion.
I have a question for you? Does a victim ever have to morally evaluate themselves? Apparently not by your standards.
The next time you want to say something nasty about America just try typing the name of another country in instead of America. See if it feels as good, or ask if it feels awkward, or wrong, or stupid. Then wait a few minutes before pressing the send button. Give it time to settle in, that feeling....
Let me know how it feels.
Nadja, you have given me a business idea.... "Berate an American...!!!" It could be an online chat service where people can go and chastise Americans without guilt, shame or judgement. Though there would be a small fee. But right from the comfort of your own home you could spend hours in ideological warfare with an actual American. There could be a pulldown menu of subjects, from Indians, to Vietnam, to foreign policy, or the many conspiracies we've created.
ReplyDeleteLet me know, we could be business partners. I like your basic model.
I get hat being denigrating is something you do very well, Sean, even with your fellow Americans if needed.
ReplyDeleteAt least, with the dumb ad ignorant women.
But I don't feel a victim, Sean, it's really cool to be hated by Americans!
As long as they don't start bombing anyway.
" Does a victim ever have to morally evaluate themselves?"
I'm sure they should, especially if they got sweet America so far to do a crime.
You are way too late with your business idea, Sean.
ReplyDeleteThink you can find sites like that enough.
And I'm sure your gouvernment knows.
Wow, did I read somewhere that if you have in excess of 50 comments the site owner gets charged by Blogger? If so, I owe you $.02, Selavy.
ReplyDeleteI should try to make this worthwhile.
The B&W photo on your post dated 8 Feb. is lovely. I especially like the position of the hands. The effect is subtle but reminds me of the photos of Georgia O"Keeffe. It's as if it can be interpreted as a sign--like it has some magical significance, even.
You know wat, the business sense is something I really admire in Americans.
ReplyDeleteIt's the one thing that can get them to set aside differences with the enemy and work together: Making dollars.
Sean even wants to work with me.
State enemy number one.
Yes, Selavy, just send me the bill, please.
You know how much I hate you for being an American, but I don't want you to go bankrupt.
I even want to pay for Sean's part.
It's worth it.
After reading the interchanges between Nadja and Sean, I ask myself what was accomplished here. Big fucking waste of time. Prime example of social media being utilized in the most vapid, meaningless way. I was directed to this Selavy blog because it was advertised that there was "fantastic" writing to be found here. I'm still waiting to be impressed.
ReplyDeleteUnknown, No, sorry, your friend was kidding you. I hate that. But it's kind of funny. Really, you can't go wrong with the classics, but there is a lot of good contemporary writers, really, more, probably, than at any time in history. Good luck to you, and again. . . sorry.
ReplyDeleteShit, had I known Unknown would come I would have made more of an effort.
ReplyDeleteBut, it had meaning to me, Sean kept me from feeling alone and lonely.
Sean, I missed you last night.
I sorta like football. A lot. I love it actually. I couldn't watch the Super Bowl cause I like football so much and my team was going to lose (and they did). Sigh.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean soccer either.
However I am quite interested in that sport as well. My son is an avid football fan in the international way I mean. I bought him a book last year "How Soccer can explain the world: an unlikely theory of globalization."
Perhaps we can all read it and have a book club?
I realized some time back that the conversation between Nadja and I was nearly pointless. But to have the witless trying to police the misguided... Oh, no... that simply won't do. The comments section of this site is not meant for what Nadja and I had been excessively misusing it for. But it is important to remember that it is not required reading, it could be seen as optional, or even less. The reader must also discern what value there might be in it for them. If it brings them pleasure to watch two fools squabble then so be it. The only person who might be able to tell us to "stop it" would be the birthday boy himself, old Selavy.
ReplyDeleteEven then, I'd want to not listen....
Well, Nadja, I must admit that it was nice to have a night off...
ReplyDelete